Poll-erizing SUV super discussion

"472CID" (472CID) 01/22/2014 at 11:00 • Filed to: OPPOPOLL

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I wanted to revisit the question X6M good or bad? with an actually poll. While we're at it lets take a look at all the controversial crossovers.

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How bout the Nissan Juke? Can the qualities of it being turbo, manual, awd, and a hatch outweigh it's funky looks?

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For the Cherokee I don't want to ask if it's ugly or not. I want to ask if Jeep did the right thing. Do you feel Jeep is better off taking risks and trying new designs or should they stick to square and blocky shapes? The question of whether the Cherokee should have been body on frame/more truckish is a discussion of another day.

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Now this SUV has been around for a while. We've had plenty of time to make up our minds about this vehicle. So with that hindsight would you have it any other way?

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For this last question I was originally going to ask, "which is worse the Honda Crosstour or Acura ZDX." But now I've decided to make it a battle royal of the ugliest SUVs.

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Brian Silvestro > 472CID 01/22/2014 at 11:02

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The fact that every Board Member at BMW looked at the X6M and said "Yeah, let's make that fucking thing" is amazing as it is. That's what makes it a great car.

Gamecat235 > 472CID 01/22/2014 at 11:03

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Before anyone... anyone, bashes the Cayenne... Check out this post from JBH . Which contains the following video:

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Read through the guesses. Then come back to what the vehicle is.

Gamecat235 > Brian Silvestro 01/22/2014 at 11:04

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I doubt it was every board member. It may very well have been one influential board member.

Brian Silvestro > Gamecat235 01/22/2014 at 11:05

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That guy is a legend.

Grindintosecond > 472CID 01/22/2014 at 11:05

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BMW will eventually use up all the numbers. I'm waiting for their X9 super luxoSUV....v12 dieselsomething. then boosted to be the X9Mxmi. All the presidents will want it.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > Gamecat235 01/22/2014 at 11:07

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Who loves the crack pipe just a little too much.

Gamecat235 > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. 01/22/2014 at 11:08

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If crack gets us batshit insane inhouse tuned superSUVs. Take us back to the 90s!

AeroEagle333 > 472CID 01/22/2014 at 11:09

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I LOVE the way the new Cherokee looks, although a friend of mine told me today she thinks the headlights give it an "Asian eyes" look.

Outside of a couple shining stars (the Viper, RAM come to mind), Chrysler hadn't had a lot going for it up until the reveal of this Cherokee and later the new 200. There are too many SUV options for the Chrysler to rest on their laurels and keep pumping out the same boring, crappy Cherokee.

Tekamul > Gamecat235 01/22/2014 at 11:10

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The Cayenne is a wonderful vehicle. It just shouldn't be a Porsche.

Textured Soy Protein > 472CID 01/22/2014 at 11:12

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Aside from the Juke, I could see myself owning any of the others. I mean, not likely. But if I had to get an SUV as my only car, I would want a stupid one.

ksmay71 > 472CID 01/22/2014 at 11:13

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Wow. I was in the minority for ALL of these. Goodness.

Gamecat235 > Tekamul 01/22/2014 at 11:15

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Why? By this logic the Cherokee SRT8 shouldn't be a Jeep.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > Gamecat235 01/22/2014 at 11:16

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Nope, what it gets you is a half assed superSUV. Now this is how you do a superSUV:

More horses and you can still take it off road if that's what tickles your fancy.

njp1589 > 472CID 01/22/2014 at 11:16

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X6M: Wrong in Every Sense of the word. It's about as subtle as an ICBM and nearly as fast. Insane.

Juke: All of the things about this car are relevant to my interests except for the front of it. It is just too ugly for me to consider.

Cherokee: In real life, It looks decent at most angles. The headlights aren't that bad. My biggest complaint is the rear, which looks too much like an Escape or a Sportage (which are terrible from behind).

Cayenne: Hated it at first, but with every iteration it's gotten better looking, and the engine options are quite nice. If this is what lets Porsche make the 918, then let it live.

Ugliest: ZDX. I was watching Thor on TV last night, and was taken aback by how truly hideous that vehicle is. The Crosstour is only marginally less offensive.

Gamecat235 > Textured Soy Protein 01/22/2014 at 11:16

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Am in the opposite boat. I would probably own a Juke before the rest of these (unless I could suddenly afford, and afford the upkeep for, a Cayenne).

cazzyodo > 472CID 01/22/2014 at 11:18

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It looks like someone sat on the hood of the Cherokee, but that's not the issue I have with it. It looks sinister at night and I could absolutely live with the polarizing front...but the back...the back is the deal breaker. It sucks. Looks like a Sorento from behind (which is my actual initial guess when I was driving behind a TRAILHAWK trim). They should have just scaled the Grand Cherokee rear down.

Gamecat235 > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. 01/22/2014 at 11:19

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Pshhh. One engine?

(if we're assuming that it was actually underpined by an escudo, which it was. Technically.)

TheJWT > 472CID 01/22/2014 at 11:19

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I voted "other" for the last question...

thebigbossyboss > Gamecat235 01/22/2014 at 11:20

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I hate the idea of luxury suvs. Cayenne's, X6, X5 whatever.

Group B-raaaaaaaaaap! > Gamecat235 01/22/2014 at 11:21

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Seconded. I had the opportunity to drive an X6M. It's goddamn amazing. The laws of physics do not apply to it. Conceivably, something that large should not be that fast, yet it is. It's like watching a 280 lb. running back. He's the size of a refrigerator, but can run a 4.9 sec. 40 yd. dash. And he can move laterally. The X6M is most surprising in it's agility. It's won't ride on rails like an M car, but when you push it, it responds with a gusto which you'd be hard pressed to find beyond the Rally Fighter.

Also, it's easy for us to want to punish the X6M for being coveted by moneyed douchebags who are looking for the most expensive way to show people that they like to go skiing in Aspen and cycling in Napa. Don't hate the player, hate the asshats.

Gamecat235 > thebigbossyboss 01/22/2014 at 11:23

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Lexus GX? Land Cruiser? LM002? Evoque? Discovery? ANY OF THEM?

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > Gamecat235 01/22/2014 at 11:23

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Heh love that car in GT3, just used to slide along the barriers and win races. I would love to see a comparison between the Bimmer, Porsche and Landie. I'd still put my money on the Landy though, but I'm bias.

Group B-raaaaaaaaaap! > Gamecat235 01/22/2014 at 11:25

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This was, by a wide margin, the most boner-inducing car in Gran Turismo 2. Ah, memories...

H4N5 GRU83R > Tekamul 01/22/2014 at 11:27

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I am ok with the Cayenne because it funds Porsche's ability to do what they do best, which is make more 911s and win at racing. I just wish it looked better.

thebigbossyboss > Gamecat235 01/22/2014 at 11:28

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Good point, I have always liked the LM002. That car is just so stupid, but awesome. All the rest are wannabe's except for the Discovery. I don't really consider the "Land Cruiser" a Luxury SUV. Sure, it became one, but it started as a true truck.

GhostZ > 472CID 01/22/2014 at 11:32

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You forget an SUV on your list.

Gentleman, I give you:

The Infiniti QX56. Featuring an enlarged 5.6l engine that made less power than its 4.5l variant.

It weighs, and I kid you not, over 6000 lbs. That's right. This thing weighs three miatas or two BRZs. It gets 14 mpg city, even with Variable Valve timing.

And instead of being based on the Armada truck, it is now based on the Nissan Patrol, but unlike the Patrol, is no longer offered with a manual.

In addition, it costs $61,000. For the base model. AWD will st you back another $4k. This exact drivetrain, except in a much lighter car with better options, can be had for $20,000 less in the great M56. And it's not like they need to sell these to afford cheaper cars, they sell about 10,000 Armadas (including the QX56) a year . That's two models, with only 10,000 being sold. The Porsche Cayenne sells between 5-7 times that every year, and it's considered a "low volume" SUV.

It's also possible to option one out all the way to $83,000, which is enough to buy you two M56s. Two! You could buy an M56, put your own AWD system in, lift it up, and add a shooting brake rear to it for the same price.

I love Nissan, and I generally like Infiniti, but the QX56 is hands down the worst SUV on sale right now.

Textured Soy Protein > Gamecat235 01/22/2014 at 11:32

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Oh, I didn't mean that as I'm planning to buy anything like these anytime soon. Just that, money aside which ones would I be willing to own.

Tekamul > Gamecat235 01/22/2014 at 11:33

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No, by this logic a FWD Patriot shouldn't be a Jeep.

Porsche has always been a company focused on performance. That focus requires sacrifice. That's why Porsches aren't the most comfortable, the roomiest, the cheapest. But they are great at what they were trying to be, a dominant drivers' car.

Sure they went water cooled. Sure they have front engine, mid engine and rear engine variants over the years. They were still focused on performance.

As soon as you add design considerations for off off (or soft) roading, generous appointments for passengers, and ample cargo space, you've lost focus. That is the Cayenne in a nutshell. To some degree, it's the Panamera as well, another candidate that is a symbol of Porsche dilution.

And to touch on the Jeep, it is another brand that relies heavily on its image. 4WD, capable anywhere. A front wheel drive Dodge Calibur in wolf's clothing should have never been a Jeep.

Tekamul > H4N5 GRU83R 01/22/2014 at 11:39

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I fully understand that thinking, cash cows (pun intended) to fund the fun stuff. I still wish it hadn't happened. I'd rather see them pad the bottom line of every 911 by $10k.

The Porschephiles would still pay it.

Gamecat235 > thebigbossyboss 01/22/2014 at 12:12

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But.... the GX is, literally, the LC with luxury bits (now a silly difference, and basically a badge job, but with previous gens, the GX was the luxury LC).

Gamecat235 > Textured Soy Protein 01/22/2014 at 12:12

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I understood. But I actually like the Juke. =)

AM3R > 472CID 01/22/2014 at 12:18

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I freaking love the Cayenne.... Porsche made a 6MT SUV, and people don't like it? How does it get more hate than any other performance SUV, at least it offered a 6MT.

Gamecat235 > Tekamul 01/22/2014 at 12:21

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No. The SRT8 is as much a Jeep as the Patriot is. Which is to say that they either both are, or neither is. And if we want to, we can dive into feelings about the Liberty and Comanche. =)

Jeep was always focused on all terrain ability. Neither the Patriot/Compass, nor the SRT8 are trail rated. Ergo, not Jeeps, by this logic.

I don't know that one can separate the Panamera from the Cayenne... and we get to travel down a slippery slope by allowing the Panamera but not the Cayenne (effectively, now, a lifted, raised, bigger Panamera, which ironically in this conversation, has legit off-road chops, perhaps it should be a Jeep?). And then we can talk about the 924/928/944/968 and really get off in the weeds.

And then I can argue that the Cayman is the most pure Porsche model released since they gave up air cooling. I suppose my point is, that we all have opinions, but ultimately, the car company decides who they are. Even when they get it wrong, it still defines them.

See the Caliber. That POS never should have left the prototype stage, in any form factor.

Tekamul > Gamecat235 01/22/2014 at 12:24

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And then I can argue that the Cayman is the most pure Porsche model released since they gave up air cooling.

I can't imagine a normal human being that would argue against that. I bet it makes Porsche purists seethe, as the Cayman engineers have out-Porsched the 911.

Gamecat235 > Tekamul 01/22/2014 at 12:38

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Actually, there is some evidence that they already add approximately $5k-$10k+ to the base price of each 911.

thebigbossyboss > Gamecat235 01/22/2014 at 12:52

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Right, I agree. So why would I want the "stupid" version of a good truck? I'd rather save the money, (because I do not care what other people think of the make of my ride), and just get an LC. There is no reason to purchase a GX as far as I can tell.

Gamecat235 > thebigbossyboss 01/22/2014 at 12:58

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Au contraire! Used GX's are much less likely to have been abused in the same way that LC's have been. =P

jatkat > GhostZ 01/23/2014 at 17:40

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I don't understand this. My Cherokee, which is a 1977, with a Carbureted 5.9 liter v8 a three speed auto, and true full time 4x4 gets SLIGHTLY worse fuel mileage than this. Weighs about the same as the Nisfiniti too.

GhostZ > jatkat 01/23/2014 at 17:49

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The VK56VD is sort of an afterthought in the Infiniti. It's the third-reiteration of a homogolation engine from the mid-2000s, and was never designed to be in a truck or to save fuel, and was best at home in a sports sedan. It's only through excessive modification that its found its way into the trucks to replace their I4 turbodiesels and VG engines, because it's cheaper than building a new, efficient I6.

EDIT: Also, a quick google search shows the late 70s Cherokee to be at 4000 lbs. Are you sure yours is 2000lbs heavier? I can't stress how much weight is on that Infiniti, it's only 200 lbs shy of the heaviest production car, although SUVs go up to 7700 lbs.